In this episode of Where Work Meets Life, Dr. Laura talks with Paul McCarthy (author of The Fired Leader; leadership speaker and global thought leader/consultant reinventing the future of leadership) and Dr. Markus Zehentner (European legal professional and author of Breaking Free from Toxic Leadership) about why toxic bosses often remain protected inside organizations while principled, high-integrity leaders get pushed out. Together, they examine how toxic leadership becomes “baked into” workplace culture through politics, retaliation against honesty, and performative “wellbeing” initiatives that look good on paper but don’t change day-to-day leadership behavior. Both Paul McCarthy and Markus Zehentner share their personal experiences with toxic bosses and how those inspired their books.
Dr. Laura discusses what toxic bosses do and what it costs: manipulation, micromanagement, emotional blackmail, scapegoating high performers as “low performers,” and creating fear-based environments. Dr. Zehentner shares how a toxic boss exploited a family health crisis and eroded his confidence, which contributed to severe stress and burnout. His story shows how quickly toxic leadership can break even competent, experienced professionals. Paul McCarthy describes being fired for the very leadership qualities he was hired for, because calling out dysfunction threatens ego-based leaders. Toxic leaders are hard to “coach away,” and the conversation highlights that organizations must stop tolerating them and build real accountability if they want to keep good leaders and prevent toxic bosses from doing long-term damage.
“So [toxic workplace] is real. This isn’t a trend. This is what we have baked into the very DNA of our organizations and our approaches to leadership, a normalization of things that shouldn’t be happening.” – Paul McCarthy
“… all these official or burnout prevention measures, they are usually designed as an employee obligation rather than a task for the management to create a work environment that does not lead to burnout in the first place.” – Dr. Markus Zehentner
About Dr. Paul McCarthy:
Paul is an author and global thought leader creating the conditions to reimagine, reinvent, and regenerate the future of leadership. Amongst a crowded space, Paul brings a unique, freshly disruptive, and bold, yet evidence-based, experiential, and experimental approach that is shifting the narrative within and beyond organizations about the future of leadership and work. Before this, Paul’s career in management and leadership consulting spans over 25 years in over 100 organizations within over 10 industry sectors. His focus in this field has been to develop leaders and their capacity, capability, and competency, and he has supported thousands of leaders globally. He also supports clients in business transformation, organizational design, and talent management, and still consults in a senior-level advisory and delivery role.
Paul’s work has been featured on dozens of podcasts, he speaks globally with organizations on his work, and supports organizations to identify, recruit, onboard, and develop leaders with the future leadership qualities needed to navigate ongoing disruption.
More information on Paul can be found here: www.paulmacleadership.com or via email, [email protected]
About Dr. Markus Zehentner:
Dr. Markus Zehentner is the author of Breaking Free from Toxic Leadership — a powerful and practical guide that helps professionals recognize manipulation, build resilience, and reclaim their careers.
He works as Senior Legal Counsel in risk management at a public sector financial institution and holds a doctorate in law. With a background in Human Resources and a role on his organization’s work council, Markus regularly supports colleagues facing toxic workplace dynamics.
Beyond his legal and organizational expertise, he brings a deeply personal lens to this conversation — shaped by lived experience, a passion for mental health, and his current training in psychotherapy.
Resources:
Paul McCarthy’s website: PaulMacLeadership.com
“The Fired Leader” by Paul McCarthy
Embracing Tomorrow’s Leader, Today – a one-hour program on disruptive leadership qualities and F.I.R.E.D. Leadership by Paul McCarthy
Paul McCarthy’s guest episodes on the Geeks, Geezers, and Googlization podcast
Dr. Markus Zehentner’s website: ToxicLeadership.info
LinkedIn: markus-zehentner-toxic-leadership
“Breaking Free from Toxic Leadership” by Dr. Markus Zehentner (co-authored with psychotherapist & organizational psychologist Claudia Schwinghammer)
“Thrive” by Arianna Huffington
“Good to Great” by Jim Collins
“I Wish I’d Quit Sooner: Practical Strategies for Navigating and Escaping a Toxic Boss” by Dr. Laura Hambley Lovett
Dr. Laura on LinkedIn
Where Work Meets Life™ on YouTube
Learn more about Dr. Laura on her website: https://drlaura.live
For more resources, look into Dr. Laura’s organizations:
Pre-order Dr. Laura’s new book today: I Wish I’d Quit Sooner: Practical Strategies for Navigating a Toxic Boss
